[edlug] Re: Stallman's talk

[Andrew Beames <edlug@xxx.xxx.xxx>]

James,

Since you've helped me with some pointers on my email quandary, I'm more than 
happy to reciprocate with any SUSE questions you have. I've been running it 
on workstations and servers since v7.0. I'm currently migrating all my 
machines to SUSE Pro 9.1. Top product.

A

On Saturday 29 May 2004 17:11, James Eaton-Lee wrote:
> Craig,
>
> that's interesting; SuSE's actually the linux distribution I have the
> least experience with; I'll have to track down the copy of SuSE I burnt
> a few weeks ago and install it on a spare machine; last time I used it
> for a desktop, the interface design was well done, but I've never
> touched it for a server.
>
>  - James.
>
> On Sat, 2004-05-29 at 14:23, Craig Perry wrote:
> > Suse have pretty well refined, microsoft SBS beating products. I've
> > deployed standard server 8 and the business desktop system for a
> > company, and consequently locked myself out of a support contract
> > because their "computer guy" felt it was easy enough that he could
> > maintain everything.
> >
> > craig
> >
> > James Eaton-Lee wrote:
> > >As someone who works indirectly with charities (and has had involved
> > >them before), it really depends upon what view you have precisely of
> > >intention - without getting overly philosophical, it depends loosely
> > >upon whether you're looking at an action itself or the consequences as a
> > >measure of value..
> > >
> > >If you're looking at the act in itself, you might conclude that
> > >charities shouldn't ever use Microsoft products in their work - and the
> > >consequence would be that very few charities ever made any money. At
> > >all. For a charity which has a small office and a few employees all of
> > >whom are working full time to make money for other people, there simply
> > >isn't the money to train or hire someone competant in *all* of the
> > >fields which they require to administer a set of linux machines to
> > >handle all of their needs: the average small to medium charity office
> > >requires:
> > >
> > >i) E-mail
> > >ii) Webhosting (locally or remotely)
> > >iii) Database (access or mssql)
> > >iv) Office packages
> > >v) filesharing amongst the office machines
> > >vi) authentication and logon services
> > >vii) internet connection sharing (dhcp/router)
> > >
> > >SBS (Small Business Server) does all of these things - and does it well,
> > >in a manner which is relatively simple to administer for a layperson.
> > >Utilising linux, on the other hand (since I think I'm right in saying
> > >that at the present time, there aren't any boxed solutions which (a la
> > >smoothwall for internet connection sharing) do all of these things. They
> > >could happily use openoffice for their office work, but the majority of
> > >server-related small business applications really need Small Business
> > >Server, and this is one niche in the market which Microsoft have nailed.
> > >
> > >On the other hand, if you're looking at the ends (ie. accomplishments)
> > >of peoples' actions, charities almost always make the world a better
> > >place - even if they license a few copies of SBS server and a few
> > >windows 2000 workstations whilst doing it. I would rather Amnesty
> > >International (no particular choice of charity, just one off the top of
> > >my head) exist - and run windows - than not exist at all. This is one
> > >case in which we should endure the lesser of the two evils, because in
> > >this circumstance (as in most), it's better to gradate principles rather
> > >than setting them in stone (and looking in the eyes of everyone sitting
> > >on the fence just as bad as the people in the other camp).
> > >
> > >In short, I have no problems with charities using windows, even if I
> > >would prefer (and encourage) them to use linux.
> > >
> > >That sounded rather rant-like and got rather long, didn't it? Sorry, I'm
> > >on the train from Glasgow to Edinburgh and I'm replying to e-mail in a
> > >more leisurely fashion than usual ;)
> > >
> > >kind regards,
> > >
> > > - James.
> > >
> > >On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 17:44, michael calwell wrote:
> > >>Attended the talk today, and enjoyed it. Much as a personally feel I
> > >> owe to GNU AND Linux , I have a couple of points...
> > >>
> > >>1: Assuming that people are fully aware of the issues, are fully aware
> > >>of the implications of their choices, shouldn't people be free to
> > >> choose non-free software? That, to my mind, is a basic freedom.
> > >> Similarly, to write and develop non-free software? IMHO, there's
> > >> something essentially contradictory in his message that Free Software
> > >> is innately better than proprietary software, and that you shouldn't
> > >> develop software along proprietary models. It's like suggesting that
> > >> you should codeify and enforce Darwinism.
> > >>
> > >>2: It's completely throwing the baby out with the bathwater and frankly
> > >>immoral to suggest to a guy who works for a charity that he shouldn't
> > >>work for that charity because they happen to use Microsoft Windows. We
> > >>have to live in the real world and make a crust - we can't all be
> > >>Richard Stallman and make a good living out of being poor and preaching
> > >>about Free Software. Furthermore, suggesting that a Free Software
> > >>advocate can't work for a company that uses proprietary products is
> > >> like telling a priest that they can't work with sinners. It only
> > >> compounds the problem.
> > >>
> > >>3: He shouldn't have been completely speechless about trends in
> > >> hardware and lock-in. That's a very, very important issue, and I don't
> > >> think you claim that you have much to say about the future and
> > >> direction of computing generally without having a stance on that
> > >> issue.
> > >>
> > >>But - you can't fault the guy, he does what it says on the tin. Just
> > >>like the development model he hates - take it or leave it, but you
> > >> can't change it.
> > >>
> > >>-
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> > >>http://www.edlug.org.uk/list_faq.html
> > >
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